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| 5-min epoxy for filler? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5148 |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:58 am ] |
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So I have been using the System 3 stuff from LMI for my filler. Works great, I just don’t like the 6+ hours I have to wait between coats (I usually do 2-3 thinned coats of epoxy). So I got thinking why not use 5-min epoxy. Sure you have to mix smaller batches and work smaller areas, but it would dry a lot faster. I bought some 5-min from Lee Valley and tested it on a few scraps. It came out really good. I’m at the point where I’m ready to try it on a guitar. Is there any reason that I shouldn’t use 5-min epoxy? Oh, I believe the epoxy from LV is System 3 as well. Josh |
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| Author: | LarryH [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:22 pm ] |
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I use it for smaller touch up areas and have had no problems but then again I have only built one guitar so I can't speak to its strengths and weaknesses. The thing I looked for was its ability to 'wet' the area and bring out the grain. Seems to be as good as System3 which seems to never really set up. Larry |
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| Author: | arvey [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:27 pm ] |
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I tried 5 min epoxy as a filler once, although it sets up fast it takes forever to get really hard. Now I use West System. Works great. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:15 pm ] |
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Yes there is a reason not to use 5 min epoxy. It cures too fast. Like most compounds that cure real fast it becomes brittle over time. The fact that you cover it in 3 mill of finish may supress this for a long time but my guess is sooner or later it will want to flake. All epoxy base is fairly much the same the differance is in the hardener, the catalist that starts the chimical change. If a base is hardened quickly it become brittle. System 3 and Zpoxy finishing resin are not intended to be adhisive epoxy but a more a film or coating epoxy. They are formulated to be much more elastic than adhisive epoxys, and 5 min varities are the least elastic of all. |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:26 pm ] |
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Thanks Michael. That is what I wanted to know. And I will stick with the System 3 stuff I have from LMI. Richard I am interested in the West System epoxy, but I am not sure which product would be the best for this application. Could you tell me exactly which of the West System epoxies you are using? Thanks Josh |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:34 pm ] |
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Check Fank Fors's sight out. I know he uses West System or give them a call and ask for a finish resin epoxy. it is realy as simple as that Most epoxy makers make many formulas a finish resin is much like a gel coat. very elastic. But they all will cure slower. By the way i am not using West system. I use Zpoxy finishing resin by Pacer |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:39 pm ] |
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The nice thing about West Systems is that they make pumps that dispense the correct amount of resin and hardener for a consistant product. You just have to mix it thoroughly. I've used this product also, and like it very much. Plus, it has a slight amber cast to it, which the System 3 SB-112 doesn't have. Never tried the Z-Poxy. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:46 pm ] |
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Don the Zpoxy is even deeper amber than the West System if the pics on Frank's site are good examples. near twice as deep in color. but you know how pics and be deceving amd I have not use West Sytem. |
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| Author: | KiwiCraig [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:14 pm ] |
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I'd also like to know about the west system Richard . Haven't been able to find Zpoxy here. I have used 5 min stuff and it was tough to level back. KiwiCraig |
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| Author: | vachterm [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:27 am ] |
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i have used(and still do) Bob Smith Ind. "finish cure" epoxy. clear, has open time of 20 mins, sands easily and mmm...well, available in Israel. Udi. |
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| Author: | rlabbe [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:02 am ] |
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If I'm in a hurry to get another coat on I just put the guitar in a small room with an electric heater (my bathroom, as it turns out). Get the temp to 90+F, and the stuff kicks pretty fast. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:53 am ] |
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I'd be careful about using other epoxies that weren't made for gap filling (like system three and zpoxy)... I recall reading something about UV rays changing the tint of other epoxies in the long run. I don't think Mr. Ford uses West System for finishing, but rather for repairs... I'm not sure. What's a day or two more in the long process of building a guitar? |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:35 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Alain Desforges] I'd be careful about using other epoxies that weren't made for gap filling (like system three and zpoxy)... I recall reading something about UV rays changing the tint of other epoxies in the long run. I don't think Mr. Ford uses West System for finishing, but rather for repairs... I'm not sure. What's a day or two more in the long process of building a guitar?[/QUOTE] rule of thumb Fast cure 6-5min epoxies will yellow some more than others. |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:49 am ] |
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mmm..epoxy brittle... oh wait I'm thinking of penut brittle... dang this cold weather! |
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| Author: | Brook Moore [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:38 am ] |
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I really like the West System epoxies and have used them in woodwork for quite a while. It was developed for boatbuilders and is available from any decent marine supply shop. They basically have one main epoxy base and several hardeners for different purposes. I have almost always used the standard 205 which cures in 6 to 8 hours. They do make a 5 minute hardener (or at least used to), but I have not tried that for filling, and am not sure I would for the reasons given above. You can also order it via the internet from Jamestown Distributers (East Coast) or Fisheries Supply (West Coast). I love the pumps, and a "one pump" amount, though slightly wasteful, is so much easier and cleaner than measuring by hand. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:50 am ] |
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In Canada, its available thru Eotic woods in Burlington Ontario, and I believe that Lee Valley carries some as well. |
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| Author: | arvey [ Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:28 am ] |
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I use 205 Hardner, Reradily available. I have also used East system but it is harder to find. |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:54 am ] |
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Thanks guys! I have a bunch of the System 3 stuff around and will use that up before I try something else. After that is gone I think I will give the West system stuff a try. Josh |
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